Front and Rear Sway Bars

Sway bars really are a must have on our huge b bodies. I currently have just have the original front sway bar, and there is alot of excessive body roll considering everything is original on the car, id like to eventually overhaul the suspension, new springs, shocks, poly bushings, front/ rear sway bar, etc. Hotchkis has front and rear sway bars, along with tubular trailing arms to eliminate body roll. Hotchkis is on the expensive side, but they do offer the largest sway bars, actually take that back, Spohn Performance has the largest rear sway bar ive seen for our b bodies, they offer a 1 1/2 inch solid rear sway bar for about 230 bucks. If you want to upgrade but dont want to spend too much, Classic Industries offers Addco front and rear sway bars, they are not as thick as Hotchkis or Spohn, but nevertheless would be a noticeable upgrade compared to stock. Here are the links to all three websites. Hotchkis- http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?Make=7&Model=1274&SubmitForm=Search Spohn- http://www.spohn.net/shop/1978-1996-GM-B-Body/Suspension/Sway-Bars-Accessories/ Classic Industries- http://www.classicindustries.com/impala/parts/suspension/sway-bars/?y=1979&p=1&sb=0&r=15

Also BMR Suspension offers a 1 1/4 inch solid front, a 1 1/2 inch solid rear sway bars, in your choice of red or black powdercoat http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=16 They also have upper and lower tubular control arms which look pretty solid.

If you can locate a 2nd Gen F-body (Z28 or preferably a WS6) front sway bar, JUMP ON IT!!!
It bolts right on and the difference will be immediately felt.

How about these ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-81-Chevrolet-Camaro-Pontiac-Firebird-Front-Sway-Bar-1-1-4-/270870346977?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f11217ce1&vxp=mtr

Myloth wrote:How about these ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-81-Chevrolet-Camaro-Pontiac-Firebird-Front-Sway-Bar-1-1-4-/270870346977?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f11217ce1&vxp=mtr

The ad says F41 and WS6!! $85 !! Jump on it!!!

Yeah I bought one beats the aftermarket which is double that and since I have several pairs of links and brackets laying around I'm set. Looks like they have a ton but who knows for how long there is a lot of cars these fit.

Now I have heard many recommends for a 1.5" rear bar on the B bodies? Seems rather beefy and not cheap either any thoughts?

Myloth wrote:Now I have heard many recommends for a 1.5" rear bar on the B bodies? Seems rather beefy and not cheap either any thoughts?

Oh no no no.... That'll be WAY too large! Sheesh, I think 1.5" is bigger than the HA rear bar I used on my track car, and HA is/was the ultimate setup.

It would be best if you stick with the 9C1 rear bar for now. The trick is to use parts that are compatible with each other. The F-body bar along with the 9C1 rear is a time proven, excellent combo. I strongly urge you to use the 3rd Gen F-body end links and 96-up S10 ZQ8 (?) bump stops too.

When using aftermarket bars, it's always best to use matched sets. They're engineered to be used together. If using lets say, a Hotchkiss rear bar with a stock front or even an Fbody bar, you'll introduce undesirable handling characteristics.

Is anybody reading between the lines yet? The answer is yes, some Fbody aftermarket suspension parts fit our cars as well.

I just found the link it's BMR that offers this using a 1.25 front and 1.5 rear

http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=42&superpro=0


I did see that several people commented that the stock arms may not be

up to that rear bar lol. They say neutral but I would suspect a minimum of

some oversteer with that setup. I agree on the street I don't think you

need anything like that.

So the new one IS 1.25? Awesome! That's the correct size for WS6/F41 bars!  I can't get over the price.... it's making me want to buy a few of them to stash away for the future.  I mean this is as good as the rear LCA deal at GM Parts Direct!  Solo, B-body, heck everybody should grab one while they have a chance.  I've done that setup - WS6+9C1 several times and the difference is always night and day.  It's even better than 9C1-9C1 which I've tried too.  I always used, used, WS6 bars so I imagine a brand new one will be even better!

If you compare the 3rd Gen F body end links to the others, you'll see why they're the better choice.  The bushings are held in place with caps instead of washers so side deflection under compression is reduced to a minimum, providing a faster response.  I don't recommend doing this on the street, but solid bushings provide absolutely instant response.  My HA front bar had tie rods instead of links/bushings.

LOL, I could go on for hours about suspensions!  

Well I think am going to stick with what I have in the rear now anyway. And I will install that 1.25 bar in front when I

install the new front control arms.

Myloth wrote:Well I think am going to stick with what I have in the rear now anyway. And I will install that 1.25 bar in front when I

install the new front control arms.

Good choice! You'll be pleased when you hit some corners!

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Keep in mind that springs and "sway-bars" work together in some ways, and independently in other ways.

Consider that putting 9C1 springs (and correct Bilstein shocks) all around will make your car feel different (& much better) all the time, but sway-bars will only "operate" when "leaning" around a corner.

So if you add both stiffer springs and bars, the two will compound each others resistance to "lateral-roll" markedly in corners,,,

but when encountering "humps" @ 90 deg to your direction of travel at speed, the sway bars have zero effect.

Auto crossing usually means very stiff front springs, which lessens the need for giant sway bars, and huge rear sway-bars make traction out of a corner less available.

An optimum setup for relatively slower, but brutally-tight cornering, as in most auto-crossing could spell disaster if driven upon high speed sweepers on many interstate highways or on a large closed circuit race course.      

Anyone who would like to gain maximum "bang for the buck" should first call a true expert like Mark Savitske at SCandC.com (610) 381-6100. He is accessible to all of us.

I also recommend reading his SA Design book "How to Make Your Muscle Car Handle", it will help de-mystify the subject and help you learn to ask the right questions and distinguish the good answers from the bad.

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I think in part you are thinking of modern Unibody vehicles that have more "flexible" chassis. These B bodies

chassis are 1960s technology and are very sloppy with stock springs and bars. Mine had a 7/8 bar up front and

very tall bouncy soft springs originally . The car was all over the road in fast movements and bounced something

awful even with new stiffer than factory shocks. With the F body 1.25 Anti-roll bar and the Impala SS front

springs the ride is much firmer but not painful like many F bodies. As far as chassis roll it is severely reduced

corners are controlled and confidence inspiring. All told it the car is much more predictable to control  in any

situation from acceleration to braking to simple traffic turns. Before it was not predictable all I am saying is

these B bodies are one vehicle where stiff front springs and a big Anti-roll bar are a must.( GM did it with the


Impala SSs)

Also the car is not

anywhere near as rough a ride as older F bodies. My previous experience with Unibody vehicles and large

sway bars was mixed and lot like you point out. I had 99 SHO I put a big Anti-roll bar on and it would not

hookup from a dead stop I had to roll at least 15ft before I could hit the gas or it was a smoke show.

It did grab high speed turns though like it was on rails so it was a compromise . I don't feel a compromise with

my Imp like I id with the SHO it's all good so far. Although I am getting a proper alignment as I type this so I

am hoping for even better results. (Front Camber was off .)


PS Yes alignment done! Rides better than it probably did in 79' very solid feel driving around town turns are

smooth , easy and best of all my wheel is straight! OEM 94-96 SS springs for earlier B bodies and the F body

bar I can't recommend enough!

--- --- ---
I'm going to talk about all components in the suspension package because sway bars (F&R) can not be chosen properly or effectively outside the context of all other parts in the system.

….. ….. …..
The main point I'd like to repeat is that, as Sweet Seventy9 has said above, the OEM parts are GM-engineered to work together as a balanced package.

When we start changing some of the parts, and not others, we upset this balance.

The factory made these cars safe and comfortable, but tended to bias towards understeer to keep many less skilled drivers headed in a forward-facing direction upon loss of control, rather than spinning around all "tail-happy".

Our 77-96 B-body front suspension design began production life in 1970 (2nd gen) F-bodies, and was superbly engineered by a team of suspension specialists, including the legendary Herb Adams to make it competitive in Trans-Am racing.

It's very good as installed in our big cars, but it requires understanding if you're going to start making changes for improvements.

….. ….. …..
If you want a very good result at a modest price, heres a good beginner's package that works great in a 77-96 B-body:

~ 94-96 SS Impala springs, same rate as 9C1, but height-set a bit lower. You will maintain the very desirable "Flat-Ride" characteristics for highway travel.  

~ 89 9C1 Bilstein shocks. Rear use B46-0929 & Front use B46-1104

~ Malibu Performance sway bars (modern re-make of Herb Adams set) call Bruce Allison @ 818-222-6725

~ New police duty body cushions, I am working now on getting them duplicated exactly, as the OEM 9C1 parts have dried up from all vintage parts sources.

~ But if you can't wait, and can stand the squeaks and groans of polyurethane, try Energy Suspension - remember that you will have to salvage and re-use your old rusty steel inserts.

~ You will absolutely need good rubber on the road to gain the maximum benefit from the above upgrades. Impala SS wheels with Nitto NT-555 would be great here.

….. ….. …..
If you want even better handling potential, buy:

~ SPC adjustable upper & fixed custom lower front control arms. Delrin pivot bushings (grease-able and virtually zero deflection)
These allow you to get 5 or 6 more degrees of positive caster without rubbing the front tire into the back of the wheel-well.

~ Use Howe precision (low hysteresis) ball joints - 1" taller version on top BJ helps improve camber curve, minimizes camber change and bump-steer/bump-toe on compression.
Howe makes a hybrid lower ball stud that allows me to use the 95-96 9C1 spindle having the larger 5/8" threaded taper socket. (71-76 style B-body lower BJ)

~ Eibach springs, matched set (Firm),  ... or...

~ Canuck Motorsports in a matched set (Very hard).

~ VariShock aluminum body QS shocks, factory set (non-adjustable valving) at all four corners.

~ Weld-up, or "Box-in" the open "C"-channel that connects the factory boxed front and rear frame sections. I did this to my 1988 Caprice LS Brougham, and the increase in torsional rigidity is now several orders of magnitude better.  

~ Currie Jonny-Joint adjustable upper and lower rear control arms.

~ Call Mark Savitske @ SCandC.com (610) 381-6100 for a recommendation for the newest best set-up for sway bars when used with this group of parts, as there are better things now than what I currently have installed.
His recommendation will result in optimized compatibility when combined with whatever other parts are used in you car.
 
….. ….. …..

I have used (and abused) all of the combinations of parts above (& several others) and can report that these combinations will make huge improvements, if you want to feel the potential in our B-bodies.
 
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"Malibu Performance sway" for a rear bar?

I agree about GM parts that's what I used and 1.25 front is practically made for the B body.

For the rear I do not know myself I haven't looked into it.

Price is an issue though too some parts you list are nice but a little pricey to me.

I spent a total of 600 completely rebuilding the front-end including Control Arms,

Sway bar, Steering to the gear box and bushings except the chassis bushings.

Maybe I'm thrifty, I don't find the car understeers at all with the F body bar and the

shop said my camber adjusted perfectly to factory specs.

….. ….. …..
Camber adjustments taken from the FSM are not a problem, but raising up the top BJ pivot-point can help the car keep the tire flatter to the road under hard driving.

If you go to a stiffer front sway bar, your car should stay flatter, but will understeer more as the inside tire unloads.

If you feel an improvement with the F-body front bar, it may simply be that the whole car is leaning less overall, and makes you feel safer, IDK.

Caster is where having it more positive (top tilted back) will make this car handle better than at factory spec, but I understand you don't want to throw money foolishly.

Factory caster settings are for comfort, so that your grandma won't complain about having to overcome the force required to turn the wheel while rolling forward.

Why did you replace the OEM control arms?

If they were so cheap, they were likely made in China.

To save cash, whenever I need just BJs and bushings, I buy the Moog parts and swap them out, keeping the OEM (made in USA) GM stampings, as they are very good.

The "Malibu Performance" rear sway bar is 1.5" in diameter and replicates the Herb Adams rear bar, and "Malibu" is the place (California), not the model of Chevrolet car!

Do some homework on the front bars, WS6 & 1LE bars are big (32 & 34mm), but are also hollow, the HA bars are solid, heat treated 4130 ChroMoly steel, and much stiffer.

I would not use a rear 1.5" bar without the matching front bar though.

Also, F-body bars are not the same as in the B-body, although they bolt in place, they (F) have shorter arms, and the HP ones require special shaped end-link bushings.

I usually buy the heavy duty grade 8 long links that are generic and have a good stock of spacers and bushings

on hand for most bars.  The width is not an issue at all it's actually the same width as the original( or close) the ends

are slightly off on the height hence  not using the original link.

I don't plan on any road racing maybe few passes down strip so close to stock camber is fine by me.

Factory arms were rusted bad I tried cleaning the driver's side and saw sunlight through it!  

The quality of the Raybestos  and Moog arms I received are not bad at all. Most things are Made in China, my Milwaukee

power tools are made in  China and have been solid tools for for 3 years the question of their origin is irrelevant.If it

works it works anything made in the USA today can be way too pricey.  (sad but true and Bill gates I'm not)

As far as the F body  bar it does fit and does work rather well in fact as I already put it in almost a month

ago and have driven since then without issue. And a professional shop just checked the whole suspension for problems

or issues as well as an alignment. Call me a stickler but I get my own work double checked to be sure and guess what

nary a  problem with the front anti-roll Bar or suspension. Sure there maybe a better bar but

for 80 dollars this was a steal, it works well and for me that's good enough to call it a day.

Hey guys I'm getting things in order to overhaul the front end of the caprice, got all mevotech supreme parts (Ball joints , arm bushes, endlinks, tie rods, center...blah blah blah) but most importantly the ws6 sway bar my question is: What is the difference between SS and 9C1 rear sway bar
I currently have a 95 SS rear installed , I would think the new sway bar will match fine with it
Also what is a HO/HA sway bar i feel silly for asking but am wanting to know

I measured the sway bar from my differential purchase couple weeks ago.

It measures at .940-50 diameter. It was on a Roadmaster, and the gears were 3.08.

I will be looking at the front sway bar and deciding about that change also.

I have an F-car front in the pole barn(buried somewhere). Its heavily set up. Poly links to use already.

This summer will be the transformation of the White Elephant to The White Rhino!

Still debating about gear selections. Either 3.73 or 4.10. Starting with turbo 350. Later OD.

I completed the Buick 8.5 rear.  

I had the whole axle powder coated including the backing plates.

Its carrying 3.73 posi. gears.

All new brake shoes and springs.  New drums(17# versus the 23#) and new axles.

New bearings and seals.   This is not a cheap experience.  About $800.00 so far.

I purchased and installed the poly upper bushings for the carrier.

Now waiting for a friend w/hoist to help install it. Along with the rear sway bar from the Buick.

Better than the 2.41 gears originally.

More to come.

I couldnt decide between those two so i chose 3.90s, id probably get 4.10s if were to do it again, but that aint much more gear than a 3.90. I just rebuilt my 8.5 and put about $1300 in it, new ring and pinion, detroit trutrac, moser axles, timken bearings, diff cover, thing was 200 bucks, but its a main cap supporting cover.

How does that Detroit Tru Trac roll compared to OEM? I was just looking last night at diffs to see what I might replace mine with.

If my 3.73's go out in a year, I will go with the 4.10's and a 700R4 trans.

Right now with the 275-60-15 tires on back helps with the rpm's. Still buzzing at 70mph.

I have an transmission extension coming to reduce the speedo cable to a more accurate mph.

It will help anyway.

GM B-Body Forum wrote:Sway bars really are a must have on our huge b bodies. I currently have just have the original front sway bar, and there is alot of excessive body roll considering everything is original on the car,

Been wondering when I actually get time to throw the Hotchkis bars on if it's going to be too much.  When she was stock suspension,  Use to attack this one turn with loads of body roll and the ass end liked to wiggle a bit over the transition. Since the Viking Coilovers where installed, dropped a ton, she sticks the turns pretty damn well now, with little to no wiggle.

Little info on the viking coilovers, When you order, they'll contact you asking what the car is getting set up for, what motor and what other suspension parts you have or are planning on installing. I told em mostly daily cruising and attacking turns, right now just a 250ci.  The rear coils eliminate the rear springs. quarter of the way from being maxed out, she sat low. This caused some binding issues, as the yoke was pitched, caused the u-joint some stress and started to hum a few weeks later. So, it was raised 2"s from then. Until the UMI boxed and upper adjustables are put one, where she'll go back down to where she was.  
Sidenote: the right side of the pic, put my gas tank a pack of smokes off the ground, since it sits lower than the frame rails.